Ep 4: Breast Cancer, Survival, and Advocacy with Sara Johnson

transcript

Fishnets & Fries Ep.4: Sara Johnson
[00:00:00] Hey there, you’re listening to Fishnets and Fries, but before we dive in, I want to acknowledge that this podcast is being recorded on the unceded and traditional territories of the Coast Salish peoples, past, present, and future. As an uninvited settler on these lands, I’m committed to my ongoing journey of decolonization.
[00:00:18] And I invite you to join me in this important work. Hi, I’m Michelle Mateus, and this is your invitation. To get messy, get real, and get into conversations that matter. Whether you’re here for the first time or coming back for a second. Grab those fries and let’s dig in.
[00:00:36] Michele: Hi everybody. Welcome to our fourth episode of Fishnets and Fries. I am Michele Mateus, your host, and I am joined today by Sarah, who is a 43 year old solo mom to a 16 year old. She is a fitness lover, a breast cancer survivor, and is currently living in Abbotsford, British Columbia on the unceded territory [00:01:00] of the Stolomatskoye Sumas.
[00:01:02] and Kwantlen First Nations and the Nooksack Indian Tribe. She is fortunate to have recently started a new job, congratulations Sarah, which is fully remote, which is a double congratulations. Who doesn’t want to work remotely?
[00:01:17] Actually, who wants to go back into an office? Right? No. And she absolutely loves that because she gets to hang out with her two dogs, which is also a bonus. And Sarah enjoys hiking, rain or shine and any other adventure. And I suspect your dogs are always by your side when you’re doing that.
[00:01:34] Sara: Oh yes.
[00:01:36] Michele: Welcome, Sarah.
[00:01:38] Sara: Thank
[00:01:38] Michele: So glad to have you here today. How are you doing today, by the way?
[00:01:42] Sara: I’m pretty good. I’m a little, I’m a little exhausted. It’s been a busy week with basketball provincials and, I haven’t really used my brain this much in a long time with a new job, so my brain is getting fit again.[00:02:00] 
[00:02:00] Michele: Yeah, it’s sometimes it’s like after a vacation, right? Or something, it’s just like in that relaxation mode, or we’re thinking about other things and we have to use our executive functioning in different ways. 
[00:02:11] Sara: I’m, I’m working that muscle. I’m working
[00:02:12] Michele: okay, well, it’s okay if, you know, fishnets and fries is all about embracing the messy,
[00:02:19] Sara: Yeah.
[00:02:19] Michele: the imperfections of life.
[00:02:21] So your brain is welcome here. However, it manages to show up today.
[00:02:26] Sara: Perfect.
[00:02:27] Michele: So first of all, I want to start off by asking you what’s your favorite way to have fries and do you have a favorite place or do you make your own?
[00:02:35] Sara: I do actually. And
[00:02:37] Michele: do?
[00:02:38] Sara: well, I don’t make my own. I
[00:02:39] Michele: Oh.
[00:02:40] Sara: I have a favorite place. And I was thinking of this recently. So I used to live in New Westminster and I lived there for a few years and there is a place that I used to live. pretty much above on a high rise building and it’s called Burger Heaven. And if you haven’t been to Burger Heaven you do have to go. They do have [00:03:00] vegetarian and vegan options but they have these wedge fries and they are to die for. And in my 20s, when I lived there there were my hangover cure. So I would, I kind of like get my pajamas and kind of like go down the elevator and just go into there and just eat some wedge fries and they’re amazing.
[00:03:23] Michele: Okay. I’m not that far from New West, so I’m definitely going to have to go visit that place.
[00:03:30] Sara: It’s
[00:03:30] Michele: haven’t had wedge fries and do they have like special toppings they put on?
[00:03:35] Are you a ketchup? Like you’re like wedge.
[00:03:37] Sara: ketchup. Ketchup and malt vinegar. Malt vinegar is my
[00:03:41] Michele: Now I’m hungry. I came home from the gym
[00:03:44] Sara: So good.
[00:03:45] Michele: do this interview and I’m like, every day is a good day for fries. Okay. So Sarah, as I said in the introduction, we know that you are a breast cancer survivor. I’m curious if you remember the moment you found out you had cancer.
[00:03:59] Sara: [00:04:00] Yeah, I think everyone who has had cancer remembers that moment. So I was actually it was quite a long process before I was diagnosed. There was about a six week period from when I found the lump to when I was actually diagnosed
[00:04:18] Michele: Six weeks, did you just say?
[00:04:20] Sara: Six weeks
[00:04:21] Michele: to interrupt. I was like, wow, six weeks. Mm hmm.
[00:04:24] Sara: and then included multiple biopsies and the waiting game is at the worst. So it was, I was on my way to work in the morning and obviously the only thing that I can think of is what was. the result of the biopsy. So I decided to phone my doctor’s office at the time and I asked to speak with the doctor and he came on the phone and abruptly said, the hospital didn’t call you, no one called you. And I was [00:05:00] like no, that’s your job.
[00:05:04] Michele: And abruptly, like, that’s like, wow, hi, how’s it going today?
[00:05:08] Sara: exactly. And then he just said flat out yeah, it’s cancer. And I pulled over into the Starbucks parking lot, which is down the street from where I was working at the time. And I think I sat there, I don’t even know, for probably a good 20 minutes just, just sitting there, just thinking what’s going to happen, right?
[00:05:31] Like, it’s, yeah, the moment, even though in my heart I kind of knew that you still kind of hold on to some kind of hope
[00:05:40] Michele: Oh yeah,
[00:05:41] Sara: something else.
[00:05:43] Michele: absolutely. Why, why wouldn’t you? You know, it’s like the big dreaded C. We don’t want to be like, oh yeah, okay, cool.
[00:05:50] Sara: Yeah,
[00:05:50] Michele: It’s not usually.
[00:05:52] Sara: We’ll get on that. Thanks, Doc. Oh
[00:05:55] Michele: And bedside manner. I think I told you before, I [00:06:00] have photographed Sarah, so we have met in person. My mom died of breast cancer and I remember the doctor who gave her, her diagnosis and I was in the room with my grandmother and aunts. This was actually the second doctor because we went for. We wanted a second opinion.
[00:06:17] And he was just very much like, hi, you have cancer. So here’s what, so like, I’m laughing now, but I was not laughing then. Like, it was like. Oh
[00:06:30] Sara: Oh, okay. Oh,
[00:06:33] Michele: she also had stage four. So it was like, oh, he’s like, okay, yeah. And he literally said, and I don’t know if this was a good, bad or bad thing. He was like, so you’re most likely going to die within the next six months.
[00:06:45] And so you’re going to want to start to put things into, I can’t remember, I can’t remember preparation or action. I can’t remember what he said then, but it was like,
[00:06:55] Sara: Oh my goodness.
[00:06:57] Michele: oh,
[00:06:59] Sara: Like,[00:07:00] 
[00:07:00] Michele: And like, I know it’s so sad. Okay. So you’re in the parking lot, you’re getting that news, you’re sitting there. And then, then what happened?
[00:07:12] Sara: I, I phoned my brother because my brother and I are really close and he was, you know, touching base and, and waiting just as anxiously
[00:07:25] And then I called my parents and I just. Well, my work, I said, I’m not coming in as obviously,
[00:07:35] Michele: obviously
[00:07:37] Sara: yeah, that I, that I did too, but that was a text message.
[00:07:40] I didn’t, I didn’t give him a call, but I
[00:07:43] Michele: that’s fine.
[00:07:43] Sara: and then I decided I’m just going to drive back home. And at the time I lived in Maple Ridge. And so this place was in Aldergrove. So I had about, you know, 45 minutes. Drive all the way home, which I honestly don’t even remember driving home which is just one of those [00:08:00] moments, I guess I was in a daze and maybe shouldn’t have been driving at the moment, but I did get home safely. And yeah, that was my day.
[00:08:07] Michele: And Sara, how old were you at that time when you got that news?
[00:08:11] Sara: years old.
[00:08:12] Michele: 39. Okay. Yeah. Wow. I’m just gonna sit with that for a minute. That’s that’s. Very, my mom was very close to that same age. So yeah, it’s, it’s young,
[00:08:26] Sara: It is, and unfortunately with, the Mammograms you can’t self refer until you’re 40 years old.
[00:08:36] Michele: right.
[00:08:37] Sara: I was not even thinking about that at that time in my life. That hadn’t even crossed my mind. And I wasn’t, sadly, I was not performing breast exams. I feel like I didn’t have the education. I lacked in, in all of that education and an awareness. Because, you know, I’m thinking I’m going to be 40 [00:09:00] soon. That’s when it starts, right?
[00:09:02] Michele: Yeah, that narrative really does need to change, doesn’t it? Because I recently photographed someone another person who is moving through all of this right now. And yeah, same, never really thought, thought about it. You know, I think that’s such a common thing. It’s like, we’re so, Hey, you’re going to start this at 40.
[00:09:22] And so we’re, we’re not prepared to think about. Like, that’s really problematic, isn’t it?
[00:09:28] Sara: It really is. It really is. And you know, into, we call it cancer land and, you know, in the society, in the, in the community that, is there, lovely, lovely, lovely community of the most amazing people that you’ll ever meet. And, on Instagram specifically is where I found my community.
[00:09:49] I’ve been in, in Cancerland since 2021. And sadly I have also lost a lot of people, a lot of friends. And most of them were [00:10:00] under the age of 40. So things do need to shift.
[00:10:05] Michele: I just got goosebumps, and I might cry. Our tears are so welcome here. Yeah, I think this is, I don’t know, what, what do you think it is? Do you think it’s like, we don’t want to think, are we avoiding it? Is it that we’re not being given the proper information? I’m thinking about a little girl at my son’s school when he was in school.
[00:10:27] She was six and the, you know, she passed away of cancer and that’s so unfortunate and the school like planted a tree in her honor. But I think, yeah, it’s really weird ageism. Like, I’m just thinking about that right now as we’re talking, I wasn’t thinking about that before. But there’s this weird ageism.
[00:10:46] Is that something that you’ve also experienced in, as you say, in Cancerland within your, that community? Mm hmm.
[00:10:52] Sara: Absolutely. The ageism for sure. I went when I went in specifically when I went into ask for a [00:11:00] diagnostic mammogram because I had found a hard area. And then also, you know, there was a dimpling that I noticed in my right breast.
[00:11:09] Michele: dimpling. Can you talk a little bit? What is that? I don’t even know.
[00:11:12] Sara: Yeah. So just like it looks like a dimple where
[00:11:15] Michele: Mm.
[00:11:16] Sara: is being pulled inwards. And it’s something that I hadn’t noticed before, I was in this, especially as a solo mom,, go to work, come home make dinner, go to the gym, come back, shower, go to
[00:11:29] Michele: Mm hmm.
[00:11:30] Sara: rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat every day. I feel like As much as I thought I was in tune with my body with my fitness and everything else, I wasn’t actually fully in tune with my body.
[00:11:43] Michele: Mm.
[00:11:44] Sara: Paying attention. And I was getting ready for the shower one day, pulled off my bra, and I just happened to look and I was like, weird. is that? I’ve never had a dimple on my breast before. Like, what is that? At which I started [00:12:00] feeling around and I was like, I swear to God, this was not hard before.
[00:12:05] Like, my whole upper call it the upper right quadrant, and it was hard as a rock, and I hadn’t noticed. And I was really small, like I was maybe, maybe a small bee, to be generous, like they were not, and they were deflated from breastfeeding and all that stuff, you know? So I was shocked that I hadn’t noticed it before. But I just wasn’t paying attention. and when I went in for the mammogram I was met with this doctor, a female doctor, and she’s like, oh, what are you here for? And I said, well, I think you need a mammogram. There’s something wrong. And I was met with a attitude of, she goes, well, I’ll be the judge of that.
[00:12:47] Michele: what?
[00:12:48] Sara: yeah, like I was taking it back. I was like, okay. Like, okay,
[00:12:53] Michele: Who says,
[00:12:54] Sara: Yeah.
[00:12:54] Michele: oh my gosh, this is, I like, again, it’s not, it’s like this is one of my stress responses. Everybody. [00:13:00] I laugh because I’m like, what? Like, you’re just like, what? Who says that to someone? I’ll be like, it’s my body. Thank you very much.
[00:13:08] Sara: Exactly. , I was taken aback. And then, I tell you, her tune definitely changed when she started a physical examination. So,
[00:13:18] Michele: Mm.
[00:13:19] Sara: she was feeling under my armpit. I hadn’t felt under my armpit because again, I wasn’t educated at the time, about the signs to look for and I could feel her feeling under my armpit and I could feel her pushing around a lymph node and I could feel that there was a hard lymph node. And then I saw her face completely change. Like she did a 180 and she, as soon as she felt it, she’s like, a family history? Asking me all these questions. And to tell you, like, that’s when I, I think I just knew before I was actually diagnosed. And that’s [00:14:00] when I went down the rabbit hole of Dr.
[00:14:01] Google, which I definitely do not recommend to anybody ever,
[00:14:04] Michele: Been there. I think many of our listeners can relate.
[00:14:07] Sara: absolutely. It was not a great idea. And also another thing I do not recommend is Facebook groups.
[00:14:15] Michele: Mm.
[00:14:17] Sara: so I did jump into before I found my community on Instagram, I jumped into some Facebook groups on on breast cancer. And I tell you, the doom and gloom really put my, my brain over the edge.
[00:14:31] And it was, it was not a good time for my mental health.
[00:14:35] Michele: Is this while you were still in the process of finding out or after you found out and then you jumped into the groups?
[00:14:41] Sara: No, this was before., I’m the type of person where it I need to know. I need to know. I need to know what’s going to happen. I don’t like sitting in the unknown. Cancer’s really taught me how to do that. And I like to say I’m getting better at that. But the unknown has always been a very scary place for me. [00:15:00] And so the further you go and deeper you go into the into the world of, cancer online without being empowered with the right knowledge of your own body and what’s going on with you, it’s, it’s definitely, not a safe space for, for your mental health.
[00:15:19] Michele: mm-hmm . And so how did you find your safe space? I know you mentioned Instagram, how did that all unfold for you?
[00:15:28] Sara: So it didn’t actually unfold until I was. diagnosed and when I knew, okay, this is what I’m facing, it’s cancer. That’s when I kind of jumped into Instagram and I actually, I came across A story of someone that I was following at the time. I don’t recall who it was, but it was a story of a GoFundMe for a local woman and her name was Brianne I might cry too.
[00:15:58] Michele: Yeah, that’s okay. Your [00:16:00] tears are welcome here 
[00:16:01] Sara: she had a stage four breast cancer she was 36 at the time. And she had a young boy who was three years old. And I just somehow ended up following her and she was the first person that I had met who was a breast cancer patient as well. And she sadly died right when I was finishing my active treatment. But that’s kind of what started the ball rolling. And from there, you just follow people who follow them and your, your community grows and grows and grows because they’re just the loveliest people in the world. Mm
[00:16:41] Michele: Yeah. It’s so interesting how that community. It’s different in one space versus another space. And community is so important as we’re moving through things.
[00:16:54] Cause we need that, right? We need that hope. We need that community. We need that support.
[00:16:59] Sara: [00:17:00] We really do. We really do. And honestly, I don’t think I would have been able to get through everything. Without them, without those people, and I’ve been fortunate enough to have met a few of them along the way at different retreats and different travels
[00:17:16] Michele: Wow. That’s so nice.
[00:17:17] Sara: been, it’s been really good. So, you forge lifelong friendships along the way. Which sadly does come with the flip side, too, of, you know, getting the news that someone just got that phone call, the one, the phone call that we all dread that, you know, it’s returned and we’re talking about the club and often we talk about the cancer club or the breast cancers just specifically as, worst club, best members.
[00:17:42] Michele: Oh,
[00:17:44] Sara: and it’s true. I mean, I, we’re just, we’re just there for each other. Like you’re like, you can probably also with you can relate that unless you’ve. You’ve really gone through it or you’re going through it. [00:18:00] It’s hard to really relate to other people. You know, you find that community of the people that get it.
[00:18:06] They get it completely. It’s not just, someone that says, Oh yeah, I totally get it. I knew somebody who had this thing that did this thing, whose cousin’s friend’s dogs or whatever, you know? Like it’s, if someone gets it, they get you.
[00:18:19] Michele: I feel like people just want to give their sympathy and you’re like, I don’t need that. Did you find that too?
[00:18:25] Sara: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And honestly , it’s, not so much sympathy. Like you do, you get those sad looks and the, Oh, I’m so sorry. A lot. But it’s the, Oh, I get it. I get it. You know, my, my aunt’s cousin died of cancer , and people, I know they’re well meaning and I’ve gotten to the point in my cancer journey, which I actually hate the term journey, but I don’t know how else to really, to explain it.
[00:18:54] Michele: I’m also, I’m there with you. I’m like, okay, is there another word we can use for that? Yeah.
[00:18:58] Sara: journey should be a fun [00:19:00] thing. It’s there’s nothing like you’re going somewhere exciting and an adventure So people I think people really try hard it makes people uncomfortable they hear the word cancer and 
[00:19:11] it’s like the old dreaded sewer that no one still kind of wants to talk about, but we have to talk about it because if, we don’t talk about it, the awareness is not where it should be. And that’s why I, I talk so much about it. And I, I threw, even threw out my treatments and everything yeah, that brought me to the advocacy world. and for me, it’s not only therapeutic to talk about it, but educating other people is really important to me.
[00:19:46] Michele: Good for you for doing that, Sarah. And I felt the same when I got diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, I’m like, okay, I want to share. I want to share. It can be cathartic, right? It like, I, I wanted to share what I was moving through and I know what everyone is moving through [00:20:00] with whatever illness, it, it still manifests differently in each one of us.
[00:20:05] And just like you found hope in that woman sharing her story online. Did you say her name was Brianne? Yeah, this is what we can offer too when we share, and this is a big part of why I wanted to start this podcast is that I had so many wonderful conversations here in my studio with the people that I photograph and my friends, we need to be sharing that because I don’t think, yeah, there’s like the big C, right.
[00:20:33] And people are scared of it. But. I can tell you, I think that we’re just all scared of our own mortality. And so when someone shares something, I think something else stirs inside of people. Sarah is like nodding her head as I’m saying this, because this has been my experience that I think it really stirs fear.
[00:20:54] And we don’t talk about our own mortalities very often. And it’s, it’s [00:21:00] like death and taxes are the thing that we can all expect out of life. , yeah, if we were all just talking more openly and curiously with compassion and empathy, but not like for me, sympathy always just goes into like, Oh, you poor you.
[00:21:13] And it’s like, Yeah, I know. I know. Thanks.
[00:21:18] Sara: Yeah,
[00:21:18] Michele: Thanks.
[00:21:19] Sara: yeah.
[00:21:19] Michele: You know, so it’s, it’s interesting, maybe if we could talk about all of these things that potentially can impact us, right? I
[00:21:30] Sara: that one phrase that I hear very often is, I can’t even imagine, and part of me wants to say, well, maybe just try. Like, if you just try to imagine maybe. can kind of understand,
[00:21:47] Michele: hear that expression a lot too, for lots of different reasons. Often.
[00:21:53] Sara: to imagine why not?
[00:21:56] Michele: I love that invitation. I think that’s beautiful. [00:22:00] I’m feeling away. I don’t know if I told you and I did share this on Instagram, but I had a breast cancer scare right before Christmas. So this is all very raw and I’m clear and clean, but yeah, as I was waiting for that phone call because of my mom and my family history.
[00:22:14] It was terrifying to be in that waiting zone and yes, as I shared, I think it was also really hard for people to receive that because they know like my mom’s story because I talk about it so often. So yeah, I love this idea of like, just imagine what I might be moving through.
[00:22:35] Sara: Yeah, yeah, it
[00:22:36] Michele: it.
[00:22:36] Sara: help.
[00:22:37] Michele: Yeah, thanks for sharing that.
[00:22:39] I love that. Sarah, we know that obviously, it’s not fun going through cancer treatment. Can you tell us a little bit about what it was like for you as you moved through your treatment?
[00:22:51] Sara: Absolutely. So everything kind of happened really, really quickly for me, which I’m grateful for. Because, you know, I got the [00:23:00] care that I needed quickly . I was diagnosed at stage three. So it already spread to my auxiliary lymph nodes under my armpit. And at the time I had a biopsy on one node.
[00:23:11] So we knew it was in at least one. But the most terrifying part, I think, was at the beginning you know, you’re diagnosed the biopsy’s confirmed that it’s cancer, they give you the type, the subtype, all that. A lot of people probably, maybe your listeners may not be aware to that. cancer is not just one type.
[00:23:31] It’s, there’s multiple different subtypes. And the type that I was diagnosed is invasive lobular carcinoma, invasive, meaning it had spread from its original spot lobular, meaning that it had started in the lobules of the breast. So your breast is. made up of lobules and ducts, and the lobules is where it had started.
[00:23:56] Is cancer. And so that itself [00:24:00] was a little terrifying because the lobular part of it is rare. I think it makes up between 10 and 15 percent of all breast cancer diagnosis. And so the research on that type of cancer is not where it should be. So everything is treated the same as if it was ductal carcinoma and ductal is the most common type.
[00:24:21] And. So that part to me was pretty terrifying just not knowing that , the knowledge and the research wasn’t quite where it should be in this day and age. And then also going for full body scans just to make sure that it hadn’t spread to other parts of my body. So thankfully that those came back clear. I do actually remember the day that I went in for those results for the scans. And when the doctor told me that they were clear, it, I just broke down. Like it was. It was like the biggest relief that was lifted off of my [00:25:00] shoulders and which sounds funny because I was still facing stage three cancer, but I knew at that time that at least I did have a chance of surviving this. It was also 2021. So if you remember a little thing, COVID, yeah, remember a little thing called COVID. Yeah. So that kind of put this added layer on top of a cancer diagnosis and going through treatment. And I knew that I was facing, the first thing I was facing was chemotherapy and That was terrifying to me because chemotherapy just ruins your immune system.
[00:25:38] You’re so susceptible to everything,
[00:25:42] Michele: Mm hmm.
[00:25:42] Sara: So the first thing I did before I started chemotherapy, a week before, thankfully, the, COVID vaccine was out. So I got that immediately to try to see if I can protect myself as, as much as I could before I started chemo. [00:26:00] and chemo was. It was hard. It was really, really hard. You know, my body handled it fairly well. Thankfully, I was able to still kind of exercise, you know, albeit at a, you know, a lower intensity for the most part. But it was really hard. It was hard going in there. I went every two weeks. I would be there for you know, four to six hours and I did I did make a couple friends.


[00:26:29] You know, often you would walk in and you just get, you know, there’s these elderly, you know, men or women that are receiving chemotherapy with their partners next to them. Everyone’s wearing a mask, but you can see the eyes and the eyes of like, Oh my goodness, she’s so young. And you know, that’s what they’re thinking. They’re looking at you with the sorrow in their eyes. And, that was really hard, too, because it was weird. It was a weird world of walking into actually, so I’m going to digress. My,
[00:26:59] Michele: Yeah, that’s [00:27:00] okay.
[00:27:00] Sara: my first appointment, I was just remembering. So my mother came with me and we’re sitting in the waiting room for chemo and the nurse comes out and she’s like, Sarah. And then my mom and I stand up and she goes and directly goes to my mother and says, okay, so what we’re going to do, and my mom goes and she points to me and she says, that’s Sarah. And they’re like, oh, you know, it’s like this. They just expected someone older. And so, yeah, that was a weird world to go through. And then, of course, losing your hair. That’s a really, that’s, that was a lot harder than I thought it was gonna be because I’ve never really been attached to my hair. I’ve never really been one, I know it’s really important for a lot of people in general but I didn’t think it was gonna be hard, but that was really, really, really hard.
[00:27:49] Because you, You don’t recognize yourself, you know, and that’s really hard. Everything changes, your body changes, [00:28:00] your appearance changes. not only do you lose your hair, maybe a lot of people don’t know this, but you literally lose every single hair on your body. Every single hair, like eyelashes, nose hairs, everything.
[00:28:15] Like, it is all gone. Going through that process. Feeling like you want to do is survive waking up every day and looking in the mirror and seeing this person that you don’t recognize. It’s very, very difficult. And, going kind of into a segue of your body and learning to love your body is definitely something that I’ve had to do through this process.
[00:28:43] Surgery, know, I had surgery three weeks after I finished chemo, and I had a bilateral mastectomy, even though I had cancer only in one side, I, I wanted them both gone, I want to live [00:29:00] with a breast, knowing that this could happen again. And so I was like, you know, I’m doing both. I knew from the beginning that’s what I wanted to do. But when you think about it, you think, okay, well, you know, you just chop them off, do whatever, all good to go. But that process is also extremely difficult. You know, there’s, that was my very first surgery. Like I had never had surgery
[00:29:26] Michele: Wow. Yeah. That’s,
[00:29:29] Sara: It’s
[00:29:29] Michele: that’s a, it’s a big, big surgery. Yeah. And I have also heard the same thing that you just shared that often if someone finds breast cancer in one breast, they’ll remove, they’ll have the bilateral. Yeah. When I had my fear thing happen in December, I was already like, yep, take them, chop them off.
[00:29:48] See you later. 
[00:29:49] Sara: Hmm.
[00:29:50] Michele: I don’t think people realize how that impacts you and your relationship with your body. And that’s an ongoing process [00:30:00] for everybody, right? As our bodies evolve and change. And let’s be honest. Every single human alive is going to get something at some point in their time.
[00:30:13] And so this self compassion with our body and our relationship with our body. And I like to think about a self compassion because we don’t have to love every inch of our body. I just think that’s also toxic positivity to assume that we could. But how did your relationship with your body change through this process?
[00:30:35] Sara: I think the biggest thing for me was learning how to trust my body again, because I really felt like, you know, I was in the best shape of my life when I was diagnosed and I just I had this feeling of how can I trust my body again? I feel like it failed me, you
[00:30:55] Michele: Mm.
[00:30:56] Sara: feel like I was doing all the right things. I [00:31:00] was treating my body fairly. I was treating it well. And how dare it turn on me,
[00:31:06] Michele: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
[00:31:13] Sara: I wasn’t so good to it in my twenties and my thirties.
[00:31:16] Michele: Who was? Who was, Sarah? Anyone out there? Good to their bodies in their 20s? High five to you if you were. You’re exceptional.
[00:31:24] Sara: I mean,
[00:31:25] Michele: You’re exceptional.
[00:31:26] Sara: if I could do it all again, I definitely would be spending less time at the Camby in downtown Vancouver, but that’s for sure. But yeah, I just felt like, okay, how do I trust my body again? How do I move forward? How do I love my body again? you know, I did have reconstruction surgery.
[00:31:26] So. In the surgery, in my initial surgery. So what they do is, you know, you take the breast tissue, take it all out. This is a really strange and potentially gross visual, but for your listeners you know how you like scoop a melon,
[00:31:41] Michele: Yeah. Mm hmm.
[00:31:42] Sara: everything out and you leave the outside.
[00:31:45] Michele: Mm hmm.
[00:31:46] Sara: basically what they do. So they try to get as much out as possible. And then I had. They’re called tissue expanders. So the plastic surgeon comes in after the breast surgeon and then he sticks in these things. [00:32:00] So there’s kind of like these pockets where they put them under, for me, it was under the pec muscles.
[00:32:06] Michele: Okay.
[00:32:07] Sara: did the reconstruction. So he puts them under the muscles and kind of puts them in there, however he does it. And then you go in once a week and the, he injects saline. So, a little bit every week,
[00:32:20] Michele: Once a week?
[00:32:21] Sara: Mm hmm.
[00:32:22] Michele: For how long?
[00:32:23] Sara: I think my process lasted about six or eight weeks.
[00:32:31] Michele: I don’t think anyone knows that. I didn’t know that . I didn’t know that that’s how they do it. Mm hmm. Wow.
[00:32:35] Sara: Yeah. So, specifically for me the reason why I decided to go that route Because I knew I need radiation. I needed radiation therapy after my surgery. So because I needed the radiation therapy they had recommended the tissue expanders and not to go straight to implants because The radiation could mess with the implant surgery and then you have to do it all over again.
[00:32:57] So even though this process was much [00:33:00] longer I opted for it because I wanted the best outcome at the end and the best chances of, of, you know, less surgeries down the road. So, yeah, once a week I went in and they pumped those up with more saline till we got to the point where, you know, it was the size that we wanted for the implants when that came down the road.
[00:33:21] It was about seven months later, and my plastic surgeon was amazing. They looked great. The scarring, you know, is very quite minimal compared to a lot of the Bosch surgeries that I’ve seen online, which can be scary to look at too. Learning to, to, to be okay with what you look like afterwards is, is, it can be very challenging. And, they don’t look like breasts when you’re not wearing clothes. Like they, they, they are implants that are under your skin or whatever. And it’s. It’s, it’s a very long learning process [00:34:00] of loving what they look like and loving your body because I tell you, your body changes more than just that,
[00:34:08] Michele: Mm hmm.
[00:34:09] Sara: I was put into medically induced menopause. Which a lot of breast cancer and patients are
[00:34:17] Michele: mama had that, too. Mm hmm.
[00:34:19] Sara: And actually, fun fact is, chemo actually puts you into menopause immediately. It shuts you down, it shuts your ovaries down. As
[00:34:26] Michele: Oh, I didn’t know that. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
[00:34:29] Sara: So, as soon as, I think I had, my last period was, like, two weeks before I started chemotherapy, and then that was it. That was it for me. And that comes along with all those fun hot flashes and night sweats and restless leg syndrome and and everything else that women have to go through when they go through menopause naturally but when you’re thrown into it. When your body isn’t [00:35:00] prepared for it, it is a rollercoaster ride.
[00:35:03] It’s intense. It’s really intense. So on top of that, when you go into menopause, your body wants to store fat. It wants your body changes. Your shape changes, your listeners that have gone through menopause, I’m sure they can relate to that. And not only that, but it comes with a lot of mental health struggles too, because it really does affect your mood, it affects everything. I was struggling mentally and struggling physically. And you know, the physical part also affects you mentally. So just this crazy, crazy, crazy ride of, of really tuning in and learning how, how do we make this as easy and smooth as possible my mental health? 
[00:35:52] Michele: And I was talking to someone just the other day about body size and how our bodies are, [00:36:00] we were actually talking about perimenopause and menopause and how our bodies are actually made to change. Like they’re made to change and our size is meant to change. Like as our body moves Through our seasons, you know, and if we didn’t put so much value on size in our society it may be a smidge easier to accept that, Hey, I meant to do this.
[00:36:24] Like, this is my body doing what it’s meant to do. This is just what happens in, in this type of season of life. So there’s so much that needs to shift in society around that. But also I think when it’s forced upon you, right. It’s really hard. It’s like extra lightning speed fast of these changes.
[00:36:42] And it’s hard enough to embrace your evolving body, when you’re in good health. And then you have this added layer of it being forced upon you. And it’s like, I remember with my mom, it was like lightning speed, all of the things, like all of the things were happening in such a short [00:37:00] amount of time for her menopause.
[00:37:02] Process. I don’t know if that’s the right, the right term. And that is, of course that’s hard to sit with and move through.
[00:37:10] Sara: Yeah, it is. Because you’re not only dealing with the side effects from treatment, but then you’re dealing with the side effects from menopause. And it’s just symptom after symptom after symptom. And you’re like, okay, like, when is this going to get better?
[00:37:28] And It does get better. It does get better, you know, with different medications and, you know, I, been on Wellbutrin. I knew,
[00:37:39] Michele: that, Sarah? I don’t know what that is.
[00:37:41] Sara: It’s it’s for, it’s a medication, antidepressant
[00:37:44] Michele: Mm hmm.
[00:37:45] Sara: anti anxiety medication. And I knew even though I I’ve had so many medications in my body and honestly before cancer, I would avoid taking Tylenol at all costs.
[00:37:55] Like
[00:37:56] Michele: Same.
[00:37:57] Sara: that’s how little I wanted medication in my [00:38:00] body. It was kind of foreign to me. I was reluctant to add something to the mix of everything, but knew that I needed to do it to move forward and to give take that little bit of edge off as far as the depression, anxiety is concerned to help myself to get through everything.
[00:38:20] I think it’s great. A very, very big pro advocate of, taking the medications that are out there to help you however you need that help. . And I think that really helped me along with my fitness for me, fitness, and I think you had mentioned the other day to like, it’s so important for your mental health just that movement. And when I saw your stories the other
[00:38:43] Michele: Mm hmm.
[00:38:46] Sara: I felt like I really felt for you. And. You, you just had this natural instinct to move and I can tell you that that got me through cancer and cancer treatment to just moving [00:39:00] and just getting it out, however, that looks like some days I would just dance in my kitchen because that’s all I could do
[00:39:08] Michele: hmm.
[00:39:09] Sara: Throwing music on and just moving like it’s so, so therapeutic and it’s so good.
[00:39:16] Michele: Yeah, you know, I went to the gym this morning. I started going to the gym in December. I am a gym serial dater. I don’t love going to the gym. I have tried so many gyms and I’m actually really loving this one. So hopefully it’s a longer love affair than my previous ones have been, but I’m thinking about this on the drive home today, because I know that you said, you’re really into moving your body.
[00:39:44] Right. And I was thinking about on the drive home from the gym today, how it’s so sad that the narrative around fitness and gyms have become so consumed with weight loss and not focused on the mental health. And in fact, my husband and I have even talked about [00:40:00] how it would be so wonderful if gym memberships, we’re covered in part of our healthcare plan, because I can, I can tell you that I started going to the gym 
[00:40:08] I have been told I have PTSD and a whole bunch of other things that I’m moving through. And I had three mental health professionals tell me that about the PTSD part. And I was like, oh shit, I’m going to join a gym.
[00:40:23] Sara: Mm-hmm
[00:40:25] Michele: I was terrified again because I’m in the worst shape of my life with the amount of stress because yeah, it’s sometimes you just can’t.
[00:40:32] And I, stress impacts my MS immensely but I’m starting to notice that I can lift a little smidgen more of weight. And that feeling of not just moving my body, but feeling stronger in my body.
[00:40:48] It’s just, it’s such a shame that. The whole narrative around fitness is really about weight loss. And for me, it’s about strength, gain, confidence, gain, clarity, gain, [00:41:00] moving like that stagnant energy in my body while I can, you know and I really wish that fitness was more closely related to mental health care and physical care.
[00:41:13] Beyond dieting and, cause it really, none of that matters. If you can feel strong and confident and connected to your body, I feel like that’s more important. And let me tell you, I have cried at the gym many times because as I’m moving there’s release
[00:41:32] Sara: Mm-hmm Yes.
[00:41:35] Michele: and I try and hide it.
[00:41:36] I’m like, I’ve got the lightest weights in my head. I’m like, I’m good. But I think it’s,
[00:41:40] Sara: just sweat. It’s just sweat.
[00:41:42] Michele: it’s just that release and, you know, I studied embodiment and somatics for a year. And it’s true. Like when we start to release things in our body, like the, and I’m not one to shy away from crying. I cry a lot. But it’s really fascinating to me to be exercising and the music bump in and then also.[00:42:00] 
[00:42:00] Start crying because our bodies are needing that, you know, that stored tension
[00:42:07] Sara: and I have cried as well and, mostly in yoga, to be honest, when I’m doing yoga or stretching or what have you you know, I, I also hate the gym. 
[00:42:20] Michele: You do
[00:42:21] Sara: I do. I hate it. I do. I really, really do. I hate the environment. I, I don’t like the lighting. So I do group fitness classes and I have been doing them,
[00:42:32] Michele: same.
[00:42:33] Sara: many, many years. I’m not doing any plugs, but like oxygen yoga and fitness. That’s where I started with them about nine or 10 years ago. I moved into a company here in Abbotsford which is not tied to them. So it’s just you know, just, A small gym but they do, it’s all the same thing, heated classes, everything is infrared heated and so sometimes the lights will be dimmer, where you can’t really see, and [00:43:00] that’s where I just kind of let it go, or if I’m laying on my mat, like at the end of it, you know. It does. It really, really releases so much that you’re right. Our health system should be covering at least a portion of it. I, I totally agree with you. . Diet, dieting is.
[00:43:18] It’s stupid. I mean, not in a sense of like taking, not in a sense of like taking care of your body, but you know, all these fad diets and know, yo yo diets and this and that and diet pills and it’s not helpful. And I have to be honest, when I first started my fitness journey years ago, I actually wasn’t, like I said, I wasn’t treating my body very well.
[00:43:43] So I, I, when I. I think it was like 12 years ago, I was a smoker. Like I used to smoke cigarettes and I traded. Smoking for fitness, because being asthmatic, I knew I couldn’t do both. So I was like, okay, this is how I’m [00:44:00] quitting smoking. And at the time, I was not in good shape. I didn’t like the way that I looked.
[00:44:05] So I, I did, I did do it for health reasons, but I did it mostly for what I look like. And, I was pretty obsessed, like I was counting calories. I was, you know, working out to, so I can eat certain things. And my body crashed because that’s, helpful and mentally I crashed. I was weighing myself every single day.
[00:44:25] Like it was so bad for my mental health.
[00:44:28] Michele: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
[00:44:32] Sara: it more about strength and it more about my body, the health, my mental health, it all kind of came into perspective. You know, the cancer kind of got in the way, but since cancer And now that I’m feeling good, I look at it very, very differently.
[00:44:50] Now, like, I’d never weigh myself. The only time I weigh myself is when I have to when I go and see my oncologist, like every few months. I don’t care about my [00:45:00] weight any longer. It’s not about that for me. 
[00:45:02] Michele: Silence.
[00:45:17] targeted with ads like around Christmas time, going into new year’s about, you know, new year’s resolutions and all these different fitness schools and, weight loss
[00:45:26] Well,
[00:45:28] Sara: And it’s just, we’re bombarded by it all so much in society, especially as women that we don’t, I don’t think we really realize how bad it is.
[00:45:39] Michele: I think the health care system should support fitness
[00:45:41] Sara: Correct.
[00:45:42] Michele: like, Hey, if you want to use,
[00:45:44] Sara: Mm
[00:45:45] Michele: don’t use physio, but my husband’s healthcare plan, because I’m self employed, I don’t have a healthcare plan.
[00:45:50] I get 500 a year for physio. Well, could I not just put that towards my. My gym. I think a lot of doctors, my doctors have, but my neurologist, like, hey, [00:46:00] let’s find ways to move our body that’s gentle and comfortable for you. So she says that a lot.
[00:46:04] Sara: Mm
[00:46:05] Michele: And same as you, I don’t really weigh myself unless I have to go to the doctor, which is when I saw like, oh, okay, that’s neat, whatever.
[00:46:11] I think access is a big problem. It’s a barrier. And it’s true. Like I also go to a group fitness I go to F45 and it’s not cheap.
[00:46:22] Sara: Mm hmm.
[00:46:24] Michele: It’s challenging, you know, and I remember even when I joined that gym, my husband’s like, how much does it cost?
[00:46:29] Sara: Yeah.
[00:46:30] Michele: and I’m barely working right now. I’m working very part-time with current things that we’re managing in our family. And so it was a big expense. So wouldn’t it be amazing if our healthcare system said, Hey, is this how you wanna help your health? 
[00:46:43] Sara: Yeah.
[00:46:43] Michele: I’ll digress, right?
[00:46:45] Sara: When you’re a cancer patient, there’s not enough information out there on how important exercise actually is and movement is for you. It helps chemotherapy work better. There’s studies on you know, longevity it reduces your chance of recurrence by [00:47:00] up to 30 to 40%, which is huge.
[00:47:03] Michele: is huge. I didn’t know that.
[00:47:05] Sara: Yeah, it’s it’s one of the, one of my biggest motivational factors on top of obviously staying healthy mentally and physically, but keeping the cancer at bay. And I think that yeah, everybody should, should be a lot of more access because my, my membership is expensive as well.
[00:47:24] It’s, it’s not cheap, you know, a lot of, there is barrier for a lot of, a lot of people. 
[00:47:30] Michele: Totally. I also think like I’m a small business owner and I’m, and my. I’m not cheap and I’m okay with that. And I think that these people that are in business, like I love my gym, they’re so supportive. I don’t think they should be cheaper. And I think that they’re providing an amazing value. I think that we should just be able to have the support because of the, we should be able to, you know, you’re saying about the Tylenol.
[00:47:54] I was like that as well. And yeah, if I want. To do this versus this [00:48:00] or this and this. I feel like why, why can’t I use my healthcare plan? So anyway, that’s a whole other story I want to dig into because, you know, I’m fishnets and fries. We love to talk about joy and pleasure. How did you find pockets of joy throughout your cancer journey?
[00:48:20] Sara: I honestly just knew that knowing myself at my age, I knew the things that me joy. And I knew that I had to continue to do them to, to get through it. And for me, there’s exercise and fitness, but on top, obviously, but on top of it, it’s nature. And for me, nature is extremely healing. Go into the woods and I go for a hike and it’s just, just being quiet and being alone and listening to the birds and listening to the sounds of nature and it’s just so healing for me. I would [00:49:00] just go and walk in the woods and just cry, you
[00:49:02] No one’s there. No one can see you. You’re just there and you’re one with nature. And for me, it’s always been a source of healing and a source of joy. And it’s always available and it’s inexpensive. And you know, you need shoes and, know,
[00:49:23] Michele: if, if that, yeah, if that, maybe you don’t
[00:49:25] Sara: Yeah.
[00:49:25] Michele: barefoot, I love being barefoot on the beach. Yeah.
[00:49:29] Sara: yeah, and it’s, it’s just, and for me, yeah, it was just pushing myself. There were days where I didn’t want to, I didn’t want to go to bed. There were days that I didn’t want to go outside, I didn’t want to interact with people or go into nature. Also, there was, you know, the COVID aspect of it all too, and being very isolated.
[00:49:49] Finding different ways while being isolated as well, was challenging. I knew that I can just go into the woods and that was available. We couldn’t really get together as people, [00:50:00] in groups or whatever, or visit our friends outside of our bubble. But, nature is always there to provide it.
[00:50:07] And being creative also is a huge thing for me. Tapping into , creativity in whatever way that looks is also something that brings me joy. And I think that it’s important, for everyone to find some, however creativity looks to you. For me, you know, I have a garden and in my vegetable garden, I have my houseplants that I take care of.
[00:50:31] And for me, that’s creative in a way, or I paint, Especially during isolation, , what else are you going to do? But, you know, tap into creativity. However that looks in any given day.
[00:50:43] Michele: Yeah, I, I, people tell me they’re not creative. They’re always like, you’re so creative. I’m not creative. I’m like, everybody’s creative. Everybody’s creative. That’s another narrative. I want to just. Smash that you’re someone’s not creative. Everyone’s creative. 
[00:50:55] How did having cancer and your evolving body [00:51:00] and changing body and all the medications and everything impact intimacy, that side of your life.
[00:51:09] Sara: Hugely, hugely it’s something and thank you for bringing that up because it is something that we don’t talk about enough as in society. It’s like people don’t want to talk about it because I find that more younger people are getting cancer more and more and more so. It’s not talked about enough how cancer treatment impacts your body. In all sorts of ways and menopause, specifically, so menopause, it, you know, happens for a reason naturally with all of us because we’re not making babies anymore.
[00:51:50] So, you know, our body naturally biologically,, turns all that off and then it also turns off the intimacy and the sexuality part of us as well. [00:52:00] So when you’re going through it medically it just kind of flips the switch so quickly that only your body changes, but your brain changes chemically everything, it impacts all of those aspects in your life. And I think one of the biggest things is also your body image and loving your body because you have all of that compounded on, you know, your physical, your mental and then you have, chemically and all that stuff that if you don’t learn to love your body and embrace your body, it makes it really hard. it makes it hard to feel comfortable with somebody else with your partner or whatever
[00:52:50] in that situation.
[00:52:51] And so it’s so multifaceted that it’s, it’s something that. We’re finally starting to talk [00:53:00] about in society and just menopause in general. And there are some specialists popping up here and there, which is, I think, amazing. I found someone who there’s only one specialist of all B. C. cancer and she is in Vancouver and her name is Dr.
[00:53:20] Altus and she is a menopause and sexuality sexual health that, She’s a therapist that works with BC cancer and I saw her on a panel and if I didn’t go to this panel for breast cancer specifically, I never would have known that she exists. And my doctor here in Abbotsford didn’t even know that she exists either.
[00:53:43] So it’s slowly we’re talking about it. But because. Women in general have been excluded from medical research and for so long we’re just getting to a point now where [00:54:00] we’re starting to talk about it. It’s, it’s sad, but it impacts us more in so many ways and intimacy and sexuality is is a huge one.
[00:54:10] Michele: Mm hmm. And so how did you connect with your sexuality or intimacy? But even for ourselves, right.
[00:54:19] I think that when we think about intimacy, it doesn’t necessarily have to be with another person, but that intimacy with ourself or just feeling away in our body, you know, feeling a little saucy. I don’t know about you, but sometimes, and I’m usually just in leggings like everyone else, especially here in the lower mainland, but sometimes it just makes me feel so good to put a little something, something on special, you know, or even, you know, there’s just these little things that can really, I don’t know, change the way we walk that day.
[00:54:52] And I can imagine when our body’s moving through all these things that we’re don’t, we’re not necessarily reaching for that. So how do we? [00:55:00] Yeah.
[00:55:05] Sara: too, like I wasn’t really one for wigs because when I was going through Chemo it was spring and then going into summer and it was hot we went through it A heat wave in 2021. I don’t know if you remember, but it was hot. It was so hot.
[00:55:22] I think we got up to about 42, 43 degrees in the, in the Fraser Valley. And so wearing a wig again, really hot, I would just on weekends when I was feeling good, I would put on that wig. I would put on makeup. I would dress up and I would go with friends. And I think that really Brought some sort of normalcy and made me feel good about the way I looked and that made a big difference in how I felt about myself. It’s definitely something I’m still learning and I’m still trying to navigate. , I’m going to doctors, I’m talking, my oncologist she doesn’t [00:56:00] really, you know, that’s not her specialty. Which is unfortunate because I’ve, and I’ve had this conversation with her about, Referring me to the specialist and how important it is for all of us, who are diagnosed with any type of cancer and going through treatment to have that support and that education and that it’s important for all of us. Oh, for the, the, the sexual health specialist. Yeah. So shifting, it’s slowly shifting, but I’m still learning, like, I’m still learning and I’m still moving through this and it’s not easy and it’s not easy, you know, in your relationships. It’s not easy with yourself and it’s a, it’s a work in progress every single day.
[00:56:49] Michele: And we don’t even talk about sex and sexuality and intimacy, and intimacy to me isn’t even sex, right? So
[00:56:56] Sara: Yeah.
[00:56:56] Michele: like I often refer myself as an intimate photographer [00:57:00] and I’m not photographing people having sex for the record. But that intimacy is a feeling, it’s an energy, right, it’s and so I think we need to be talking about that more in general, like what is intimacy, and you know, you were talking about putting on the wig and putting on the makeup, like there is no shame in getting dolled up or whatever you want to call it and feeling good about yourself that way.
[00:57:25] I, I feel like we also shame folks for wanting to do that and it seems super. Superficial. I think we also need to get rid of that narrative. You know, it’s like, if that’s what makes you feel good, who gives a shit? Like I, for me, it’s, I love my red lipstick and that is usually like, just throw that on it and always just makes me feel away.
[00:57:44] So yeah.
[00:57:45] Sara: Yeah.
[00:57:46] Michele: the shame. Screw the shame.
[00:57:48] Sara: Yeah. Yeah. Whatever makes you feel good about you. I’m always a big advocate for yeah. Like, wear the dress. Wear the high heels. Do what you gotta do. High heels are not [00:58:00] for me. I’m
[00:58:00] Michele: No.
[00:58:01] Sara: I’m six feet tall, so it’s just not my jam. 
[00:58:03] Michele: We should just stop judging where the wigs, where the sparkles, where nothing, as long as it’s safe for you to do so,
[00:58:11] Sara: Yeah.
[00:58:12] Michele: and consensual, just go for it.
[00:58:14] Sara: Exactly.
[00:58:14] Michele: think that we can’t deny that we’re all. sexual beings and have desires and that kind of energy and when our body’s shifting, I can imagine that such a needed conversation in these spaces because I can tell you, no one’s ever talked to me about MS and intimacy and also impacts that too.
[00:58:31] Let’s segue into this role that you’ve taken on around advocacy and how that’s become important for you and why that’s become important for you. I know you touched a bit about that at the beginning and what can you also share to others that might be moving through some heavy stuff in their life and what, how advocacy has supported you?
[00:58:54] Sara: Absolutely. I think I jumped into it pretty quickly because I saw [00:59:00] other young women who were, my age or around my age that were creating content online and advocating for education around women’s health in general. I was like, yeah, I, I like my story is valuable and my story,, their stories were helping me. I thought that my story could also help other people. So I also started creating content. I wasn’t working because I was, I was fortunate enough to have long term disability. So I wasn’t working and I jumped on board with a couple local nonprofit organizations. One Breast Cancer Canada another one, Breast Canada. I was also working as a breast health educator with Know Your Lemons Foundation, which is in the U S sharing my story because I was sharing it anyways, because I couldn’t shut up about and
[00:59:59] Michele: that. I mean, [01:00:00] just the right that right right there. That’s some inspiration. I love what you said about you thought that your story, , was meaningful, like there was something there that could be shared. I hope that everyone feels that way. This is this is as a photographer when I’m always telling people like you matter, your story matters.
[01:00:18] And it may really Support someone and bring out that hope and joy that as they’re moving through things. So I love that you notice that within yourself.
[01:00:30] Sara: Yeah. And then, I would get DMs from people who were, you know, just starting out with, being diagnosed or potentially being diagnosed or, and I could help them. And, the friends that I had along the way, and now I’m getting emotional. You know, the friends that I lost who I could talk to It just, I just felt like I needed to be that for them too, , If, , if cancer takes me one day, which I hope it doesn’t,
[01:00:59] Michele: I hope it doesn’t [01:01:00] too, so. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
[01:01:07] Sara: I learned from her and I got some strength and I felt good about myself and I can share my story because she’s shared hers just to digress just a little bit, like growing up, I’m not going to get into details, but growing up as a kid , I had kind of a difficult childhood in my home and I was silenced for quite some time, so I really felt like I didn’t have a voice.
[01:01:28] And I feel like going through cancer and being able to share my voice and to share my story has been really therapeutic for me in general, and has helped me deal with past traumas as well as my current traumas. Which cancer, just so you know, brings up a lot of old stuff too. So any kind of medical diagnosis can, can do that for people. And , there’s that part for myself, which I don’t think there should be any shame of doing something for [01:02:00] yourself. but in turn can, can help other people. And. Education is key and trying to reach younger people is always in my goal because honestly, need to start educating Young people, even in high school, even teenagehood, we need to start educating them about their bodies, learning about your bodies, don’t have shame in your bodies, , and there’s so many aspects of that you know, consent, and even in the medical world, and if we can empower People young, then we can find these things younger and not be dealing with stage four diagnosis and not be having to, tell young families that, you know, they’re going to lose somebody when the medical system could have helped them earlier.
[01:02:57] Michele: I love that. Thank you for the [01:03:00] advocacy work that you do. I mean, that’s how we met. Continue to do that. Continue to also encourage people to use their voice. It’s my life mission. It’s why I started this podcast. I’ve always really loved storytelling. It’s so important. It goes way back and this idea of listening to each other’s story, like really, truly listening and finding ways to connect through story is so freaking powerful.
[01:03:29] So thank you for what you do, Sara. I think it’s so wonderful. This has been such a wonderful conversation and I’m sure there’s a million other things that we could talk about. Is there any last thing that you would love for our listeners to know about your journey or if they’re moving through this?
[01:03:46] Sara: Yeah, just that it it does get better. It does get better. And, we all go through, everyone goes through, seasons in their lives. And it’s not always butterflies [01:04:00] and rainbows. And And I’m, I also loathe toxic positivity. But, and I don’t say things happen for a reason because they fucking don’t sometimes. but it will get better. There will be glimmers of hope. There will be joy. And joy and pain can coexist.
[01:04:25] Michele: Mm hmm. Definitely. Duality, right? We can, I talk about this so often with my current life because of the current season I’m in, because I do experience joy and I experience, immense sadness and pain daily. And both can coexist. So yes, I love that. I started this podcast, I realized with my friend Mari that fishnets and fries is a bit of a tongue twister.
[01:04:51] Can you say it five times fast?
[01:04:54] Sara: Fishes and fries, fishes and fries. No, I can’t. That was only one and a [01:05:00] half.
[01:05:03] Michele: How can our listeners connect with you, Sarah, where can they find you?
[01:05:07] Sara: They can find me on Instagram. It’s so sad that got rid of my original account
[01:05:14] Michele: That’s so bonkers.
[01:05:15] Sara: too many political things online, I guess. But I’m gonna be, I’m really hoping that Blue Sky comes out with their new app. 
[01:05:23] Michele: I’ll put how your current account on Instagram people can reach out there. I’ll put that in the show notes. And yeah, awesome.
[01:05:34] Sara: Anyone can reach out at any time. I’m an open book, and I love meeting new people, new friends, always open, and sharing my experiences if anyone is finding themselves in, the worst club and best members of cancer, and I’m always, always available.
[01:05:53] Michele: Thanks, Sarah. Thanks so much for being so open and vulnerable and not only sharing your story, but [01:06:00] really educating. Like there’s, I have been through the cancer journey with my mom. There’s so many little tidbits that you shared here today that I had no idea about. And I think that’s really key in your message is that we need more education.
[01:06:12] And we know that there’s these big seas looming out there, but there’s all these things that you spoke about that I’m like, sorry, what’s that? I don’t know. So everyone. Don’t forget to do your breast self exams
[01:06:25] Sara: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
[01:06:26] Michele: and your mammograms and don’t let somebody tell you that you shouldn’t have a mammogram if you’re under the age of 40.
[01:06:34] Sara: Self breast exams. Yep. And if you need to learn how to do it, there’s a lot of information online and a lot of information available on social media as well. And I’m willing to share it with anyone as well. If you’re interested.
[01:06:49] Michele: Yeah. And you can always have your partner do it. I know that’s actually someone that I recently photographed. That’s how, she found it in her brass was her partner found. It was like right. [01:07:00] So yeah, invitation to yourself or your partner or, Hey, maybe you have a friend that’s been through it and they can help you.
[01:07:07] So just don’t, you don’t have to do it alone if you don’t want to.
[01:07:11] Sara: You’re never alone. You’re never alone
[01:07:13] Michele: No, thanks so much, Sarah. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you sharing everything today.
[01:07:21] Sara: Yeah. Thank you for having me. This is a lot of fun.
[01:07:24] Michele: Awesome. Well, everybody, I hope that you take a lot from this conversation and don’t hesitate to reach out to Sarah if you have any questions. And of course, you can always reach out to me. You know where to find me.
[01:07:35] Sara: Thank


[01:07:36] Thanks for diving in to another episode of Fishnets and Fries, a Mateus Studios production. If these conversations are feeding your soul, don’t forget to subscribe and share the love. Until next time, keep it hot, keep it real, and keep it fabulous.